tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post4711414632325366898..comments2023-10-09T10:05:44.803-06:00Comments on Patricia Stoltey: Historical or ? by Margaret Frazer, Guest BloggerPatricia Stolteyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-36170533003916257552011-05-20T07:21:26.301-06:002011-05-20T07:21:26.301-06:00Margaret, we loved having you here. This was an ex...Margaret, we loved having you here. This was an excellent post that spoke to a lot of writers.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-84134761246030767852011-05-20T04:54:23.259-06:002011-05-20T04:54:23.259-06:00I meant to make a graceful farewell with great tha...I meant to make a graceful farewell with great thanks to Pat for the chance to be here. Then a weighty copy-edited manuscript arrived on my doorstep and my nice, coherent (relatively speaking) life got over-set with Distraction. So my thanks to Pat and all of you is belated but very deeply meant. This has been fun and rewarding.Margaret Frazerhttp://www.margaretfrazer.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-4712121776080418412011-05-20T04:50:47.946-06:002011-05-20T04:50:47.946-06:00Dean's worry is one that has handicapped a fri...Dean's worry is one that has handicapped a friend of mine so badly that she's been unable to start writing the potentially exciting novel she's fully researched and is very excited about. It's set early in WWII and she fears that making even the slightest deviation from facts, whether by purpose or accident, will bring down scorn from those who were there. So we're being deprived of what promised to be a fine novel. Dean, if the life of your story depends on that deviation, maybe you'll have to take the risk and go for it. Or maybe you can plot a little deeper and find a clever way around it. Best of excellent luck!Margaret Frazerhttp://www.margaretfrazer.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-62607372931481603582011-05-18T23:07:39.016-06:002011-05-18T23:07:39.016-06:00I am wrestling with this very topic in my WIP. If ...I am wrestling with this very topic in my WIP. If I'm off an hour or two from the event that sets the story into action, is it that critical. Personally, I'm not sure which category I fall in, at least at this point. I'm sure that will change. But I've considered the possibility that those who know the tried and true fact could turn against the work as wholly fabricated or as a put down to those involved in the real event.Dean K Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01846624912452227191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-24431557602863600972011-05-18T22:14:59.168-06:002011-05-18T22:14:59.168-06:00I believed that some facts if not all should be tr...I believed that some facts if not all should be true and verified, even if we're dealing with fiction and fantasy, this is one thing how a writer appears to be passionate on his works, though I'm kinda lazy sometimes and trusted it all to wikipedia..Greys Anatomy Episode Guidehttp://www.greysanatomyepisodeguide.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-78446126756291249392011-05-18T14:28:48.438-06:002011-05-18T14:28:48.438-06:00As usual a wonderful informative post. Look forwar...As usual a wonderful informative post. Look forward to reading about Victorian England.<br /><br />Have a good day.<br />Yvonne.RHYTHM AND RHYMEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11386975261804630799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-80964066902095517062011-05-17T13:40:29.068-06:002011-05-17T13:40:29.068-06:00I've been enjoying everyone's comments, bu...I've been enjoying everyone's comments, but Susanne's has made me laugh aloud. It's great hearing from all of you.Margaret Frazerhttp://www.margaretfrazer.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-57549636335615045922011-05-17T08:43:50.050-06:002011-05-17T08:43:50.050-06:00Thanks, Margaret, for your post. I agree that wri...Thanks, Margaret, for your post. I agree that writers shouldn't deliberately distort or ignore established facts for the sake of fiction -- but I usually don't call the result historical fantasy, I call it "a sloppy researcher making dumb mistakes" because that's what it often looks like! When meticulous author/historians who spend 25 years absorbing everything about a particular historical period get lumped together with people who obviously just don't care, it can be infuriating.<br /><br />I ranted about this subject a bit myself at my own blog, under the title "Rewriting History" (2 parts).<br /><br />Susanne Alleyn<br />The Aristide Ravel MysteriesSusanne Alleynhttp://www.susannealleyn.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-43084214648300783532011-05-17T07:11:21.060-06:002011-05-17T07:11:21.060-06:00I never stop saying how much I respect those who w...I never stop saying how much I respect those who write historical fiction and fantasy. The amount of research is staggering and as a writer, I'd want to know I got the facts right or as close to accurate as possible.J.L. Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05666634455836834179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-19797059011844849072011-05-16T19:07:18.508-06:002011-05-16T19:07:18.508-06:00I want my historical fiction to be as historically...I want my historical fiction to be as historically accurate as possible. I need to remember that I may have to do some checking to be sure. ThanksEdna Pontillohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09814880257252837734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-90684745042578678042011-05-16T13:54:33.375-06:002011-05-16T13:54:33.375-06:00I appreciate the article though I would not necess...I appreciate the article though I would not necessarily talk about ´historical fantasy fiction´ quite as soon as Margaret does. But I do like proper research, and as a reader i also like being able to ´judge´ the writer on her research which is why I usually choose fiction from the last 200 years or so. But I must remember to tell my daughter about this series; she loves learning about history through well researched fiction.Dorte Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14535044092722418173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-47964857377747800852011-05-16T12:26:43.220-06:002011-05-16T12:26:43.220-06:00I've read and enjoyed many historical romances...I've read and enjoyed many historical romances, although not lately. But I've never been thrown by too much 'fictionalisation'. I know some people are, but I'm not a purist. I'm more about the story.Talli Rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780882465745107715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-5184513906242730362011-05-16T10:43:25.425-06:002011-05-16T10:43:25.425-06:00Margaret, I've read many of your books and enj...Margaret, I've read many of your books and enjoyed them all thoroughly. My love of English history and my personal history in the theatre made your Joliffe books delicious treats.Elspeth Futcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10330102545384369360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-7278424563111368862011-05-16T10:05:25.937-06:002011-05-16T10:05:25.937-06:00Inadvertent inaccuracies happen to all of us and s...Inadvertent inaccuracies happen to all of us and shouldn’t spoil the story for readers, and of course there are aspects of events in history that are debatable, especially if accounts written at or near the time of an event disagree with each other. In that case, both historians AND novelists need to sort through the existing accounts to make sense of them and are free to make choices based on those facts. Note the italics. If one source says a series of events happened in the sequence A-B-E-C, and another source has those same events as A-B-C-E, and a third source (all of them almost contemporary) has A-B-C-E and throws in D for good measure, a novelist HAS to sort those around into a sensible sequence of events (as I had to do with Jack Cade’s invasion of London in THE SEMPSTER’S TALE). Then his/her plot can be built into that framework. Or a novelist may have a story set in a time when there are large gaps in what we know about the time, and that leaves lovely open spaces for the novelist to work in freely. But if a novelist takes a big, known fact and decides to distort it for the sake of the story she/he wants to tell, then the book is now historical fantasy or – if you will – costume fiction. And -- oh, yes -- HI, everyone!Margaret Frazerhttp://www.margaretfrazer.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-23424664299717827252011-05-16T08:21:58.998-06:002011-05-16T08:21:58.998-06:00Good morning, everyone, and thanks for dropping by...Good morning, everyone, and thanks for dropping by to meet Margaret.Patricia Stolteyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17192369425956406122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-86396434514388117512011-05-16T07:23:17.148-06:002011-05-16T07:23:17.148-06:00How can I possibly beat my husband at Jeopardy if ...How can I possibly beat my husband at Jeopardy if the facts I'm getting in historicals aren't historically accurate? I'll opt for true genre every time. If it's fantasy, which I love, I'd like to know that up front. If they call it historical, I do want it to be accurate.Kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05878203057848340870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-29263913114453881102011-05-16T07:04:41.361-06:002011-05-16T07:04:41.361-06:00I appreciate accuracy in historical novels and all...I appreciate accuracy in historical novels and all the research that goes into writing them; however, if the story is compelling and the characters are fascinating, I will be swept away with the story and probably not be aware of the inaccuracies unless they are blatant.Donna Volkenannthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04540727800410234483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-59503209860044062922011-05-16T07:00:06.273-06:002011-05-16T07:00:06.273-06:00Thank you Patricia for having Margaret come over. ...Thank you Patricia for having Margaret come over. This is a topic that is discussed around our home all the time. It doesn't even need to be historical but if it isn't true to the facts of the time and we aren't told that up front - then it annoys both my husband and I. Now, obviously if we don't KNOW, because we don't know everything (!) then we might happily read a long and think that the factual bones of the story are true. But that is a deception that if found out makes readers very upset. Why not avoid it by putting in your disclaimers or saying that you've played fast and loose with history?<br />Thanks for discussing this...<br /><a href="http://www.labanan.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Jan Morrison</a>Jan Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01771180344305042855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-11801738876781780342011-05-16T06:33:25.915-06:002011-05-16T06:33:25.915-06:00Either way, it involves a lot of research. If it&#...Either way, it involves a lot of research. If it's fiction, I don't mind inaccuracies.Alex J. Cavanaughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09770065693345181702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-34389489389550143882011-05-16T06:28:37.422-06:002011-05-16T06:28:37.422-06:00Great, interesting point. I certainly see your poi...Great, interesting point. I certainly see your point.<br /><br />Although it seems odd to me that one changed detail can put a novel into the historical fantasy category according to this view. Really--there are so many "facts" that have such a level of uncertainty to them. Or historical details that, if kept true to, would detour the reader away from the central themes and plot of the novel.<br /><br />For me, I don't think a few altered facts changes a novel to historical fantasy.Heidi Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056627400336997554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-37988363866346938402011-05-16T06:28:28.098-06:002011-05-16T06:28:28.098-06:00Pat - Thanks for hosting Margaret.
Margaret - I&...Pat - Thanks for hosting Margaret.<br /><br /><br />Margaret - I'm so glad you made the points you made about accuracy. Maybe it's my background in academia, but when I read historical fiction, I like it to portray accurately what life was like at that time. Of course writers take some liberties, but I have to admit I don't like sloppy research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6757567191914795875.post-90668355977218655272011-05-16T06:27:38.375-06:002011-05-16T06:27:38.375-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Heidi Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056627400336997554noreply@blogger.com